FBIS3-51824 "drlat017_o_94001"
FBIS-LAT-94-017 Document Type:Daily Report 26 Jan 1994
Colombia

Gaviria Interviewed on U.S. Troop Presence

PA2501171494 Santa Fe de Bogota EL TIEMPO in Spanish 21 Jan 94 pp 1a, 8a PA2501171494 Santa Fe de Bogota EL TIEMPO Language: Spanish Article Type:BFN [Interview with Colombian President Cesar Gaviria by unidentified EL TIEMPO reporter; place and date not given] [Text] [EL TIEMPO] The Council of State, through its new president, Magistrate Amado Gutierrez Velasquez, sent you a letter on Wednesday 19 January in which it requested information regarding the constitutional and legal reasons behind the presence of U.S. troops in different parts of our country. Is the president willing to give out that information? [Gaviria] More than that. I have given instructions for the Defense Ministry to give out all the information it has on the temporary presence of U.S. troops in the country. The government is willing, as it has always been, to fully cooperate with the Council of State, not only by turning over documents but also by making the necessary explanations to clear up this matter. [EL TIEMPO] As for the presence of U.S. troops in Juanchaco, why did the government not ask the Senate or the Council of State for authorization as the National Constitution requires? [Gaviria] It is clear that the government believes the presence of U.S. troops or those of other countries that enter Colombian territory to provide technical and training assistance and that observe international agreements does not violate the Constitution. The legal base for this type of exercise is the Inter-American Reciprocal Assistance Treaty (TIAR) which is currently in effect. It was signed by Colombia and approved by the Congress of the Republic in 1947. This treaty was followed by the Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement signed on 17 April 1952. These types of military missions are carried out in Colombia based on legal documents that have been in effect since the middle of the century. As for the joint military engineering exercise taking place in Juanchaco -- in which neither military personnel [as published] nor warships are participating -- there is a memorandum of understanding and an agreement signed by Defense Minister Rafael Pardo and U.S. Ambassador Morris Busby on 29 October 1993. These instruments lie within the framework of, among others, the TIAR. They specify that the missions will be joint military engineering exercises for training purposes, which will lead to the construction of various projects for community use. Other similar agreements exist. One of them has to do with the exchange of military personnel, another has to do with the integration of the radar network located in the Caribbean, and another is aimed at expanding the naval river fleet. Moreover, within the same framework of the TIAR, there have been various joint exercises with military units from various Latin American countries. We can mention the well-known naval operations called Unitas, 34 of which have already been held. They have been held every year since 1959 in Colombian territorial waters, as well as in other countries. Naval units from various countries are trained with regard to the joint procedures that would be followed in case of an attack from outside the continent. A landing exercise has taken place each year since 1962 at a place known as La Cangrejera on the Atlantic coast. In 1983 two exercises took place: one in Tumaco and another in San Andres. In 1991 and 1992 exercises took place in the vicinity of the Bahia Malaga Naval Base. They were joint exercises with the participation of U.S. and Colombian soldiers among others. Therefore, by virtue of the fact that at the time TIAR was approved by the Congress, the Defense Ministry, and all exercises have been carried out on these same legal assumptions and never has anyone objected, I do not consider it necessary to request authorization from the Senate, or request the opinion of the Council of State, or inform any other authority, the same way it was not done in the past with Unitas and other similar exercises. [EL TIEMPO] But do you believe Mr. President that the country is so naive as to believe that 150 men from the United States are needed to build a small school? [Gaviria] Of course not; all these projects can be done by the Colombian State. But here lies the mistake. These gentlemen are military engineers and have come here to carry out joint exercises with Colombian military forces. The idea is to teach and practice, to share technical experiences, to solve logistical and communications problems, which eventually our men would meet in a situation of war. Instead of expending energy building or making useless things, they dedicate their energy to civic and solidarity objectives. The idea is to take advantage of the joint military engineering training and at the same time benefit the area and the community. [EL TIEMPO] Does the presence of U.S. soldiers in Juanchaco violate Colombian sovereignty? [Gaviria] The president does not see it that way. The U.S. military engineers are in an area totally under the control of the Colombian Navy and carry out their work under the supervision of the Armed Forces. I must also insist that the presence of military missions, doing civilian work, is covered by international agreements that are currently in force. The problem is that many stories have been weaved around this. In fact, the EL TIEMPO Sunday edition highlighted the lies that have been used to attack the people's good faith. I have even heard that a U.S. base will be built in Juanchaco to replace the ones in Panama, or worse yet, that a new transoceanic canal is being designed. Good gracious! One needs to be very naive or very ill- intentioned to spread stories such as these that make no sense. All this uproar leads me to wonder that once studies are completed, which both the Council of State and the Prosecutor General's Office are doing, the country must reflect and decide whether or not it wants this type of assistance in the future. My personal opinion is that if one believes that this type of assistance is an affront to our sovereignty, one is closing the door on something that is basic to making our Armed Forces more professional. Not only that, but we would end cooperation, equipment supply, maintenance, and intelligence that allow us to fight crime. [EL TIEMPO] President, but Juanchaco is not the only case. What were the U.S. planes that overflew Barranquilla this weekend up to? [Gaviria] According to what the Military Forces General Command and the FAC [Colombian Air Force] reported to me, the weekend Barranquilla overflights had been legally authorized earlier. The Civil Aeronautics Board, through the Directorate of Air Operations, had information on the Atlantic coast areas that this type of aircraft was going to overfly. Colombia, in its fight against drug trafficking, receives support from the United States and other countries. We do not have all the equipment or the required technology to support with technical intelligence the struggle against drug trafficking. On the basis of current agreements that seek to repress illegal drug trafficking, the Defense Ministry requests, when conditions warrant, the support of U.S. planes that are specially equipped to detect airplanes that have not filed a flight plan. It is worth mentioning that overflights by U.S. airplanes are authorized by Decree No. 1692 of 1992. The overflights are to inform the Colombian authorities on the presence of unauthorized planes and that any other measure, such as chasing these airplanes, is exclusively the responsibility of the FAC and other national authorities. You might be asking yourselves why the air traffic controllers did not know? Because there are ongoing investigations of air controllers involved in drug trafficking. There are also people who are interested in stirring up false sovereignty debates, encouraged by dark sponsor. If we are concerned about defending our air space sovereignty, the true threat does not lie in joint operations with the help of friendly countries. Danger to sovereignty, to Colombian society, and air security arise with the hundreds of illegal flights, without flight plans, and with perverse motivations, carried out by gun runners and drug traffickers over our territory. The authorized overflights are precisely an act of sovereignty to prevent our air space from being used with impunity by Colombia's true enemies. [EL TIEMPO] How many air surveillance radars has the United States installed in Colombia? Who operates them and who uses the information they collect? [Gaviria] Currently, the United States has installed four radars. The locations, facilities, and equipment are under the command, operation, and responsibility of Colombian military authorities. Some operate with the technical assistance of U.S. civilian organizations, and others with the technical assistance of U.S. military personnel. The radars' purpose is precisely what I talked to you about earlier -- that is, to use technical means to enforce control, surveillance, and sovereignty. The information gathered is at the disposal of the Colombian Armed Forces, which uses it to plan operations. Colombia has always pressed the international community to obtain more equipment, which serves to enhance our intelligence work. I wish we had more radars and more technical assistance in these matters. [EL TIEMPO] Some days ago, you said the U.S. military operation in Juanchaco was "humanitarian" in nature. Do you still feel that way? [Gaviria] To be precise, I would be more accurate to talk of it as a solidarity or civic operation. I feel that building a hospital or a school, like the U.S. military engineers are doing, as a by-product of the joint exercise is a task that entails goodwill, and as the Juanchaco residents have said, it benefits the people of the zone where it occurs. [EL TIEMPO] Is there any relation between the war against the Cali Cartel and the Juanchaco operation? Do the military operations in Juanchaco include building and operating radio beacons that seek to control drug trafficking? [Gaviria] I believe I have stated with sufficient clarity that the Juanchaco activities, which stem from the memoranda of agreement and understanding signed between Defense Minister Rafael Pardo and U.S. Ambassador Busby, have no other purpose than the one announced: the joint implementation of military engineering projects based on reciprocal assistance treaties. Moreover, in view of the evident needs of the people of that area of the country, the Defense Ministry and the Valle Department Governor's Office signed a contract last December to build a landing strip in Juanchaco. The Codazzi Military Engineers Battalion is implementing that project. Although this project is being carried out simultaneously with the ones mentioned earlier, it has no connection with the project the U.S. soldiers are implementing. All of this falls within the framework of the Colombian Constitution and laws. Some people, who are doubtful, have legitimate concerns. Others, who vehemently defend the notion of a U.S. invasion, are espousing a false nationalism that comes from bad information or shady interests. [EL TIEMPO] Why have there been so many contradictions, so much secrecy, so much mystery in the handling of this case? [Gaviria] No. There has not been any of that. From the start, I reported the activities going on in Juanchaco. If you compare the information the government issued in December to current information, it is exactly the same. The public is aware of the scope of the operation. Armed Forces officers have been ready to speak with reporters, and some reporters have even visited the site. As I said, I think it is legitimate that doubts and questions are expressed at political and public opinion levels, and the government has the obligation to answer them. I also think, however, the country is the victim of an exacerbated and ill-intended distortion of events. I am not ruling out the existence of a misinformation campaign aimed at creating sentiment against international cooperation in the struggle against drug trafficking. In the past, drug traffickers have manipulated a false sense of nationalism to undermine the nation's purpose of ridding itself from the slavery that criminal organizations have tried to impose on it. We cannot be stooges for those who hide behind our flag to evade the law and protect their illicit businesses. [EL TIEMPO] Last week's issue of SEMANA referred to a conversation with Prosecutor Gustavo de Greiff and U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno, in which the possibility of pardoning the members of the Cali Cartel was mentioned. How do you feel about it? [Gaviria] Regarding your question, the country knows we are studying the topic either through consultations between presidents or contacts the foreign minister has made. We will make a decision at an opportune time. A decision will respond to the interests of Colombia and America. Concerning the private conversation between the prosecutor general and Ms. Reno, I must inform you that the information I have is quite different from that published in the weekly in question. Never, for example, was there any mention of the word pardon. A pardon is a moral and legal impossibility of which neither the president nor the prosecutor could approve under any circumstance. For obvious reasons the president of the Republic cannot expand on the issues discussed in that private meeting, but he is convinced that the terms of the conversation differ from the reports that were published. What must be stressed is that after that conversation Prosecutor General De Greiff and the U.S. Justice Department managed to settle most of the differences that had emerged during the process of legal cooperation, whereby the proof gathered in the United States against drug traffickers was collected for the Colombian courts. Nevertheless, because I am already discussing this topic, allow me to tell you that the president of the Republic has a high opinion of the prosecutor general, who has become one of the moral pillars of our society. With his legal wisdom and administrative skills he has built the Prosecutor General's Office, which was created by the 1991 Constitution to establish system of litigation in our country. Moreover, he has done much more than this. He has bravely confronted the threats of criminals who see in the prosecutor general a respresentative of Colombians who refused to allow themselves to be defeated and were not frightened by the onslaught of violence. The prosecutor works shoulder to shoulder with the president of the Republic and his staff to develop and consolidate policies, such as the policy of submission to justice, which has allowed a tangible reduction of the terrorist phenomena associated with drug traficking. More recently, the prosecutor has made progress in bringing to trial, sentencing, and jailing several criminals. Of course, there have been times when we held different points of view -- in short, different opinions concerning the way to handle particular cases. Because of the good relationship that exists between the president and the prosecutor, and because of the need, which is acknowledged by everyone, to work as a team, these differences have been eliminated for the good of the country. [EL TIEMPO] Are the differences the public perceives between the Presidency and the Attorney General's Office concerning the surrender process for the Cali Cartel real or imagined? [Gaviria] They are normal within the sphere of responsibility of each of the institutions. The Attorney General's Office, on one hand, strictly fulfills the dictates of the Penal Code as it pertains to the rights of defendants. The government, on the other hand, also insists on implementing strict penalties and on granting the necessary guarantees of security to those people who surrender to justice. I believe I share the prosecutor's views concerning the drug lords' eventual surrender to justice. Moreover, if one member of the drug trafficking hierarchy wants to adhere to this policy, he must be sent to a top security jail. Also, if he wants to obtain from the government the implicit benefits of the submission policy, he must cooperate with the authorities and confess. [EL TIEMPO] The way these drug traffickers are being held in custody seems to be one of the reasons for disagreement. To what extent is the government's severity due to what could be described as "La Catedral Syndrome" [reference to Envigado maximum security prison in Medellin, also known as La Catedral, considered to be one of the most secure prisons in Latin America]? [Gaviria] The government has learned from past experiences, good and bad. In turn, the government must make sure that members of society who surrender to the authorities do not mock the administration of justice. The only way to control eventual abuses is to keep the inmates in high security prisons, protecting their rights and giving them all proper guarantees, but also having them do their duties as inmates. [EL TIEMPO] The U.S. Government reportedly has made statements and applied pressure regarding the Cali Cartel. It has also been said that a certain indulgence of yours toward Washington is linked to your campaign for the post of OAS secretary general. What have you to say about this? [Gaviria] The United States is not the only one that wants us to work with the same zeal with which we defeated the now virtually extinct Medellin Cartel. Colombian society is also committed to this effort, with or without the international community's requests. Colombia must continue to firmly combat drug trafficking. Colombia must wage a life-or-death struggle against drug trafficking with tools such as surrender. I am firmly determined to maintain this policy. I have stood firmly against drug trafficking throughout my public life, when I was a congressman, during my campaign for president, when I took up Luis Carlos Galan's banner, and as president of the Republic. The suggestion that the president of the Republic's view of this problem is influenced by Cesar Gaviria's eventually running as candidate for the post of OAS secretary general is evil and ill-intentioned. The country is familiar with my position regarding drug trafficking. [EL TIEMPO] Behind the probable surrender of the topmost leaders of the Cali Cartel and other drug trafficking organizations lies the offer of those who control a large part of the drug supply to the United States to dismantle the business. Apart from putting a few drug traffickers behind bars, is it not important for the government to dismantle a business, whose profits can run in the millions, and the country's most complex criminal organization? [Gaviria] It is the duty of this government, the Prosecutor General's Office, and the Attorney General's Office to find a good judicial solution to break impunity and to have the leaders of criminal organizations cooperate with justice, go to prison, and serve sentences that serve as deterrents. If, in addition, their illegal activities are dismantled, I am sure the Attorney General's Office can negotiate sentences in accordance with the Penal Procedure Code. In due time, the Prosecutor General's Office itself will be able to assess the cooperation of those who submit themselves to justice. This policy must be accompanied by the combined actions of the intelligence services, the public forces, the Prosecutor General's Office, and the Attorney General's Office against criminal organizations -- actions that will make it possible to dismantle their illegal activities and build up legally sound cases. I want to go further, however. It must be crystal clear to the country that it is impossible to coexist with the mafias, either those that perpetrate terrorist actions or those that hide beneath a peaceful appearance. Every Colombian must be watchful to prevent a climate of relative complacency toward drug trafficking from leading us to painful situations like the ones we experienced in the past. I am sure this view is shared by the Prosecutor General and the Attorney General. Our shared objective is to rid Colombia of the criminal drug trafficking organizations. [EL TIEMPO] In Thursday's "Counterescape" column, and in relation to the attempt on the finance minister's life and renewed guerrilla activity, journalist Enrique Santos Calderon questioned the military intelligence services' efficiency and the Armed Forces' capability to counter these attacks. What do you have to say about this? [Gaviria] The Armed Forces have substantially improved their ability to deal with organized crime. In fact, we can say Colombian society and the Armed Forces are on the offensive and have been defeating subversion and violence. A great effort has been made to improve the operational facilities of the Army and the police. Their numbers have been increased, and their members have become more professional and been given better equipment. In addition, the resources at the disposal of the state's security and intelligence services have increased in number and been reinforced. The results have been overwhelming. The guerrillas' military actions have decreased in number, their power to undermine the national wealth has decreased, and the number of kidnappings have decreased, among other significant variations in the guerrillas' behavior. The dismantling of the Escobar cartel and the elimination of its leader, the world's most notorious criminal and drug trafficker, demonstrate the Colombian Armed Forces' ability to deal with organized crime. As a result of the public force's permanent activities and the results obtained in the struggle against subversion, subversive organizations have been perpetrating terrorist actions to cast a false image of their armed power. In addition, in view of their complete political isolation, in this pre-electoral time they can do nothing other than perpetrate terrorist actions to make themselves known as an active organization. Nevertheless, and despite the serious events of this week, the guerrillas are clearly losing their emphasis on politics, and their actions are becoming more and more like those of a mafia or organized crime. The attempt on the finance minister's life and the use of terrorism indicate the guerrillas' military weakness. We coincide with columnist Santos Calderon in that, to deal with these people in this new way, it is mandatory to keep reinforcing the intelligence services' work and, of course, to seek greater support for the authorities among the people. [EL TIEMPO] Mr. President, when will the candidacy for the OAS secretary general be decided? [Gaviria] Colombia's eventual candidacy for the OAS secretary general must be explained as a consequence of the reality of our international relations and our incorporation into the world community of nations, not as an expression of a president's personal aspiration. As for your question, we are considering the subject, either through consultations among presidents or the foreign ministers' contacts, and the country knows this. We will make a decision when the times comes. Such a decision will respond to the interests of Colombia and all of America.