FBIS3-51824
"drlat017_o_94001"
FBIS-LAT-94-017
Document Type:Daily Report
26 Jan 1994
Colombia
Gaviria Interviewed on U.S. Troop Presence
PA2501171494 Santa Fe de Bogota EL TIEMPO in Spanish 21 Jan
94 pp 1a, 8a
PA2501171494
Santa Fe de Bogota EL TIEMPO
Language: Spanish
Article Type:BFN
[Interview with Colombian President Cesar Gaviria by
unidentified EL TIEMPO reporter; place and date not given]
[Text] [EL TIEMPO] The Council of State, through its new
president, Magistrate Amado Gutierrez Velasquez, sent you a
letter on Wednesday 19 January in which it requested information
regarding the constitutional and legal reasons behind the
presence of U.S. troops in different parts of our country. Is
the president willing to give out that information?
[Gaviria] More than that. I have given instructions for the
Defense Ministry to give out all the information it has on the
temporary presence of U.S. troops in the country. The
government is willing, as it has always been, to fully cooperate
with the Council of State, not only by turning over documents
but also by making the necessary explanations to clear up this
matter.
[EL TIEMPO] As for the presence of U.S. troops in Juanchaco,
why did the government not ask the Senate or the Council of
State for authorization as the National Constitution requires?
[Gaviria] It is clear that the government believes the
presence of U.S. troops or those of other countries that enter
Colombian territory to provide technical and training assistance
and that observe international agreements does not violate the
Constitution.
The legal base for this type of exercise is the
Inter-American Reciprocal Assistance Treaty (TIAR) which is
currently in effect. It was signed by Colombia and approved by
the Congress of the Republic in 1947. This treaty was followed
by the Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement signed on 17 April
1952. These types of military missions are carried out in
Colombia based on legal documents that have been in effect since
the middle of the century.
As for the joint military engineering exercise taking place
in Juanchaco -- in which neither military personnel [as
published] nor warships are participating -- there is a
memorandum of understanding and an agreement signed by Defense
Minister Rafael Pardo and U.S. Ambassador Morris Busby on 29
October 1993. These instruments lie within the framework of,
among others, the TIAR. They specify that the missions will be
joint military engineering exercises for training purposes,
which will lead to the construction of various projects for
community use. Other similar agreements exist. One of them has
to do with the exchange of military personnel, another has to do
with the integration of the radar network located in the
Caribbean, and another is aimed at expanding the naval river
fleet.
Moreover, within the same framework of the TIAR, there have
been various joint exercises with military units from various
Latin American countries. We can mention the well-known naval
operations called Unitas, 34 of which have already been held.
They have been held every year since 1959 in Colombian
territorial waters, as well as in other countries. Naval units
from various countries are trained with regard to the joint
procedures that would be followed in case of an attack from
outside the continent. A landing exercise has taken place each
year since 1962 at a place known as La Cangrejera on the
Atlantic coast. In 1983 two exercises took place: one in Tumaco
and another in San Andres. In 1991 and 1992 exercises took
place in the vicinity of the Bahia Malaga Naval Base. They were
joint exercises with the participation of U.S. and Colombian
soldiers among others.
Therefore, by virtue of the fact that at the time TIAR was
approved by the Congress, the Defense Ministry, and all
exercises have been carried out on these same legal assumptions
and never has anyone objected, I do not consider it necessary to
request authorization from the Senate, or request the opinion of
the Council of State, or inform any other authority, the same
way it was not done in the past with Unitas and other similar
exercises.
[EL TIEMPO] But do you believe Mr. President that the
country
is so naive as to believe that 150 men from the United States
are needed to build a small school?
[Gaviria] Of course not; all these projects can be done by
the Colombian State. But here lies the mistake. These
gentlemen are military engineers and have come here to carry out
joint exercises with Colombian military forces. The idea is to
teach and practice, to share technical experiences, to solve
logistical and communications problems, which eventually our men
would meet in a situation of war. Instead of expending energy
building or making useless things, they dedicate their energy to
civic and solidarity objectives. The idea is to take advantage
of the joint military engineering training and at the same time
benefit the area and the community.
[EL TIEMPO] Does the presence of U.S. soldiers in Juanchaco
violate Colombian sovereignty?
[Gaviria] The president does not see it that way. The U.S.
military engineers are in an area totally under the control of
the Colombian Navy and carry out their work under the
supervision of the Armed Forces. I must also insist that the
presence of military missions, doing civilian work, is covered
by international agreements that are currently in force.
The problem is that many stories have been weaved around
this. In fact, the EL TIEMPO Sunday edition highlighted the lies
that have been used to attack the people's good faith. I have
even heard that a U.S. base will be built in Juanchaco to
replace the ones in Panama, or worse yet, that a new
transoceanic canal is being designed. Good gracious! One needs
to be very naive or very ill- intentioned to spread stories such
as these that make no sense.
All this uproar leads me to wonder that once studies are
completed, which both the Council of State and the Prosecutor
General's Office are doing, the country must reflect and decide
whether or not it wants this type of assistance in the future.
My personal opinion is that if one believes that this type of
assistance is an affront to our sovereignty, one is closing the
door on something that is basic to making our Armed Forces more
professional. Not only that, but we would end cooperation,
equipment supply, maintenance, and intelligence that allow us to
fight crime.
[EL TIEMPO] President, but Juanchaco is not the only case.
What were the U.S. planes that overflew Barranquilla this
weekend up to?
[Gaviria] According to what the Military Forces General
Command and the FAC [Colombian Air Force] reported to me, the
weekend Barranquilla overflights had been legally authorized
earlier. The Civil Aeronautics Board, through the Directorate
of Air Operations, had information on the Atlantic coast areas
that this type of aircraft was going to overfly.
Colombia, in its fight against drug trafficking, receives
support from the United States and other countries. We do not
have all the equipment or the required technology to support
with technical intelligence the struggle against drug
trafficking. On the basis of current agreements that seek to
repress illegal drug trafficking, the Defense Ministry requests,
when conditions warrant, the support of U.S. planes that are
specially equipped to detect airplanes that have not filed a
flight plan. It is worth mentioning that overflights by U.S.
airplanes are authorized by Decree No. 1692 of 1992. The
overflights are to inform the Colombian authorities on the
presence of unauthorized planes and that any other measure, such
as chasing these airplanes, is exclusively the responsibility of
the FAC and other national authorities.
You might be asking yourselves why the air traffic
controllers did not know? Because there are ongoing
investigations of air controllers involved in drug trafficking.
There are also people who are interested in stirring up false
sovereignty debates, encouraged by dark sponsor.
If we are concerned about defending our air space
sovereignty, the true threat does not lie in joint operations
with the help of friendly countries. Danger to sovereignty, to
Colombian society, and air security arise with the hundreds of
illegal flights, without flight plans, and with perverse
motivations, carried out by gun runners and drug traffickers
over our territory. The authorized overflights are precisely an
act of sovereignty to prevent our air space from being used with
impunity by Colombia's true enemies.
[EL TIEMPO] How many air surveillance radars has the United
States installed in Colombia? Who operates them and who uses the
information they collect?
[Gaviria] Currently, the United States has installed four
radars. The locations, facilities, and equipment are under the
command, operation, and responsibility of Colombian military
authorities. Some operate with the technical assistance of U.S.
civilian organizations, and others with the technical assistance
of U.S. military personnel. The radars' purpose is precisely
what I talked to you about earlier -- that is, to use technical
means to enforce control, surveillance, and sovereignty. The
information gathered is at the disposal of the Colombian Armed
Forces, which uses it to plan operations. Colombia has always
pressed the international community to obtain more equipment,
which serves to enhance our intelligence work. I wish we had
more radars and more technical assistance in these matters.
[EL TIEMPO] Some days ago, you said the U.S. military
operation in Juanchaco was "humanitarian" in nature. Do you
still feel that way?
[Gaviria] To be precise, I would be more accurate to talk of
it as a solidarity or civic operation. I feel that building a
hospital or a school, like the U.S. military engineers are
doing, as a by-product of the joint exercise is a task that
entails goodwill, and as the Juanchaco residents have said, it
benefits the people of the zone where it occurs.
[EL TIEMPO] Is there any relation between the war against
the
Cali Cartel and the Juanchaco operation? Do the military
operations in Juanchaco include building and operating radio
beacons that seek to control drug trafficking?
[Gaviria] I believe I have stated with sufficient clarity
that the Juanchaco activities, which stem from the memoranda of
agreement and understanding signed between Defense Minister
Rafael Pardo and U.S. Ambassador Busby, have no other purpose
than the one announced: the joint implementation of military
engineering projects based on reciprocal assistance treaties.
Moreover, in view of the evident needs of the people of that
area of the country, the Defense Ministry and the Valle
Department Governor's Office signed a contract last December to
build a landing strip in Juanchaco. The Codazzi Military
Engineers Battalion is implementing that project. Although this
project is being carried out simultaneously with the ones
mentioned earlier, it has no connection with the project the
U.S. soldiers are implementing.
All of this falls within the framework of the Colombian
Constitution and laws. Some people, who are doubtful, have
legitimate concerns. Others, who vehemently defend the notion of
a U.S. invasion, are espousing a false nationalism that comes
from bad information or shady interests.
[EL TIEMPO] Why have there been so many contradictions, so
much secrecy, so much mystery in the handling of this case?
[Gaviria] No. There has not been any of that. From the
start,
I reported the activities going on in Juanchaco. If you compare
the information the government issued in December to current
information, it is exactly the same. The public is aware of the
scope of the operation. Armed Forces officers have been ready to
speak with reporters, and some reporters have even visited the
site. As I said, I think it is legitimate that doubts and
questions are expressed at political and public opinion levels,
and the government has the obligation to answer them. I also
think, however, the country is the victim of an exacerbated and
ill-intended distortion of events. I am not ruling out the
existence of a misinformation campaign aimed at creating
sentiment against international cooperation in the struggle
against drug trafficking.
In the past, drug traffickers have manipulated a false sense
of nationalism to undermine the nation's purpose of ridding
itself from the slavery that criminal organizations have tried
to impose on it. We cannot be stooges for those who hide behind
our flag to evade the law and protect their illicit businesses.
[EL TIEMPO] Last week's issue of SEMANA referred to a
conversation with Prosecutor Gustavo de Greiff and U.S. Attorney
General Janet Reno, in which the possibility of pardoning the
members of the Cali Cartel was mentioned. How do you feel about
it?
[Gaviria] Regarding your question, the country knows we are
studying the topic either through consultations between
presidents or contacts the foreign minister has made. We will
make a decision at an opportune time. A decision will respond to
the interests of Colombia and America.
Concerning the private conversation between the prosecutor
general and Ms. Reno, I must inform you that the information I
have is quite different from that published in the weekly in
question. Never, for example, was there any mention of the word
pardon. A pardon is a moral and legal impossibility of which
neither the president nor the prosecutor could approve under any
circumstance.
For obvious reasons the president of the Republic cannot
expand on the issues discussed in that private meeting, but he
is convinced that the terms of the conversation differ from the
reports that were published.
What must be stressed is that after that conversation
Prosecutor General De Greiff and the U.S. Justice Department
managed to settle most of the differences that had emerged
during the process of legal cooperation, whereby the proof
gathered in the United States against drug traffickers was
collected for the Colombian courts.
Nevertheless, because I am already discussing this topic,
allow me to tell you that the president of the Republic has a
high opinion of the prosecutor general, who has become one of
the moral pillars of our society. With his legal wisdom and
administrative skills he has built the Prosecutor General's
Office, which was created by the 1991 Constitution to establish
system of litigation in our country.
Moreover, he has done much more than this. He has bravely
confronted the threats of criminals who see in the prosecutor
general a respresentative of Colombians who refused to allow
themselves to be defeated and were not frightened by the
onslaught of violence. The prosecutor works shoulder to
shoulder with the president of the Republic and his staff to
develop and consolidate policies, such as the policy of
submission to justice, which has allowed a tangible reduction of
the terrorist phenomena associated with drug traficking. More
recently, the prosecutor has made progress in bringing to trial,
sentencing, and jailing several criminals.
Of course, there have been times when we held different
points of view -- in short, different opinions concerning the
way to handle particular cases. Because of the good
relationship that exists between the president and the
prosecutor, and because of the need, which is acknowledged by
everyone, to work as a team, these differences have been
eliminated for the good of the country.
[EL TIEMPO] Are the differences the public perceives between
the Presidency and the Attorney General's Office concerning the
surrender process for the Cali Cartel real or imagined?
[Gaviria] They are normal within the sphere of
responsibility of each of the institutions. The Attorney
General's Office, on one hand, strictly fulfills the dictates of
the Penal Code as it pertains to the rights of defendants. The
government, on the other hand, also insists on implementing
strict penalties and on granting the necessary guarantees of
security to those people who surrender to justice.
I believe I share the prosecutor's views concerning the drug
lords' eventual surrender to justice. Moreover, if one member
of the drug trafficking hierarchy wants to adhere to this
policy, he must be sent to a top security jail. Also, if he
wants to obtain from the government the implicit benefits of the
submission policy, he must cooperate with the authorities and
confess.
[EL TIEMPO] The way these drug traffickers are being held in
custody seems to be one of the reasons for disagreement. To
what extent is the government's severity due to what could be
described as "La Catedral Syndrome" [reference to Envigado
maximum security prison in Medellin, also known as La Catedral,
considered to be one of the most secure prisons in Latin
America]?
[Gaviria] The government has learned from past experiences,
good and bad. In turn, the government must make sure that
members of society who surrender to the authorities do not mock
the administration of justice. The only way to control eventual
abuses is to keep the inmates in high security prisons,
protecting their rights and giving them all proper guarantees,
but also having them do their duties as inmates.
[EL TIEMPO] The U.S. Government reportedly has made
statements and applied pressure regarding the Cali Cartel. It
has also been said that a certain indulgence of yours toward
Washington is linked to your campaign for the post of OAS
secretary general. What have you to say about this?
[Gaviria] The United States is not the only one that wants
us
to work with the same zeal with which we defeated the now
virtually extinct Medellin Cartel. Colombian society is also
committed to this effort, with or without the international
community's requests. Colombia must continue to firmly combat
drug trafficking. Colombia must wage a life-or-death struggle
against drug trafficking with tools such as surrender. I am
firmly determined to maintain this policy. I have stood firmly
against drug trafficking throughout my public life, when I was a
congressman, during my campaign for president, when I took up
Luis Carlos Galan's banner, and as president of the Republic.
The suggestion that the president of the Republic's view of
this problem is influenced by Cesar Gaviria's eventually running
as candidate for the post of OAS secretary general is evil and
ill-intentioned. The country is familiar with my position
regarding drug trafficking.
[EL TIEMPO] Behind the probable surrender of the topmost
leaders of the Cali Cartel and other drug trafficking
organizations lies the offer of those who control a large part
of the drug supply to the United States to dismantle the
business. Apart from putting a few drug traffickers behind bars,
is it not important for the government to dismantle a business,
whose profits can run in the millions, and the country's most
complex criminal organization?
[Gaviria] It is the duty of this government, the Prosecutor
General's Office, and the Attorney General's Office to find a
good judicial solution to break impunity and to have the leaders
of criminal organizations cooperate with justice, go to prison,
and serve sentences that serve as deterrents. If, in addition,
their illegal activities are dismantled, I am sure the Attorney
General's Office can negotiate sentences in accordance with the
Penal Procedure Code.
In due time, the Prosecutor General's Office itself will be
able to assess the cooperation of those who submit themselves to
justice. This policy must be accompanied by the combined actions
of the intelligence services, the public forces, the Prosecutor
General's Office, and the Attorney General's Office against
criminal organizations -- actions that will make it possible to
dismantle their illegal activities and build up legally sound
cases.
I want to go further, however. It must be crystal clear to
the country that it is impossible to coexist with the mafias,
either those that perpetrate terrorist actions or those that
hide beneath a peaceful appearance. Every Colombian must be
watchful to prevent a climate of relative complacency toward
drug trafficking from leading us to painful situations like the
ones we experienced in the past. I am sure this view is shared
by the Prosecutor General and the Attorney General. Our shared
objective is to rid Colombia of the criminal drug trafficking
organizations.
[EL TIEMPO] In Thursday's "Counterescape" column, and in
relation to the attempt on the finance minister's life and
renewed guerrilla activity, journalist Enrique Santos Calderon
questioned the military intelligence services' efficiency and
the Armed Forces' capability to counter these attacks. What do
you have to say about this?
[Gaviria] The Armed Forces have substantially improved their
ability to deal with organized crime. In fact, we can say
Colombian society and the Armed Forces are on the offensive and
have been defeating subversion and violence.
A great effort has been made to improve the operational
facilities of the Army and the police. Their numbers have been
increased, and their members have become more professional and
been given better equipment. In addition, the resources at the
disposal of the state's security and intelligence services have
increased in number and been reinforced. The results have been
overwhelming. The guerrillas' military actions have decreased in
number, their power to undermine the national wealth has
decreased, and the number of kidnappings have decreased, among
other significant variations in the guerrillas' behavior.
The dismantling of the Escobar cartel and the elimination of
its leader, the world's most notorious criminal and drug
trafficker, demonstrate the Colombian Armed Forces' ability to
deal with organized crime.
As a result of the public force's permanent activities and
the results obtained in the struggle against subversion,
subversive organizations have been perpetrating terrorist
actions to cast a false image of their armed power. In
addition, in view of their complete political isolation, in this
pre-electoral time they can do nothing other than perpetrate
terrorist actions to make themselves known as an active
organization. Nevertheless, and despite the serious events of
this week, the guerrillas are clearly losing their emphasis on
politics, and their actions are becoming more and more like
those of a mafia or organized crime.
The attempt on the finance minister's life and the use of
terrorism indicate the guerrillas' military weakness. We
coincide with columnist Santos Calderon in that, to deal with
these people in this new way, it is mandatory to keep
reinforcing the intelligence services' work and, of course, to
seek greater support for the authorities among the people.
[EL TIEMPO] Mr. President, when will the candidacy for the
OAS secretary general be decided?
[Gaviria] Colombia's eventual candidacy for the OAS
secretary
general must be explained as a consequence of the reality of our
international relations and our incorporation into the world
community of nations, not as an expression of a president's
personal aspiration.
As for your question, we are considering the subject, either
through consultations among presidents or the foreign ministers'
contacts, and the country knows this. We will make a decision
when the times comes. Such a decision will respond to the
interests of Colombia and all of America.